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Post by brinstar on Jun 16, 2005 0:19:20 GMT -7
-->click here<--Short Story: Some guys kid who has cerebal paulsy got his account banned because the software and hardware he uses in order to play from his wheelchair triggered Blizzard's anti-botting stuff. Not sure if its real or not, but since the WoW Community Managers haven't locked the threads I'd have to say atleast the e-mails posted are legit. Very sad indeed. Remember back when you could just play a game and not have to worry about looking like a cheater even when your not one. 
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Post by Lady Shylah on Jun 16, 2005 7:23:40 GMT -7
wow.. that's 30 pages long  I read the first two pages. What ended up happening? Did you end up reading it all? Heh, most likely, I'll be reading it later today. My first question, and no disrespect to the kid and his situation, is how would WoW know for sure that this kid is really 'real'? What if it's a big scam? All those emails and stuff.. it just seems like WoW's word versus the kid's word. There was no hard evidence in the first 2 pages but I'm sure more was said as it progressed. |
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Post by brinstar on Jun 16, 2005 11:50:52 GMT -7
wow.. that's 30 pages long I read the first two pages. What ended up happening? Did you end up reading it all? Heh, most likely, I'll be reading it later today. My first question, and no disrespect to the kid and his situation, is how would WoW know for sure that this kid is really 'real'? What if it's a big scam? All those emails and stuff.. it just seems like WoW's word versus the kid's word. There was no hard evidence in the first 2 pages but I'm sure more was said as it progressed. I read most of it, and most of the spin off threads that folowed. The part that gets under my skin is WoW has no way of knowing the kid isn't disabled. Yet they banned anyways, AFTER the father e-mailed. They have established that the e-mails are real and the account was banned. The forum mods would have locked the thread very quickly and banned the OP if the e-mails were made up. (the OP posted the account name in the e-mail, wisely) So if the e-mail's really were recieved by Bliz, why did they go ahead with a ban? Even if it COULD be a lie, what company in thier right mind would procede to possibly discriminate against a person with a handicap on grounds of "Oh they could be lieing". On top of that I really think the facts add up in favor of the child. Remember L2 and how we would target botters? They move, pause, attack, pause, move, pause, attack, pause... the way we'd catch the hard ones was thier mechanical movement. Well thats how NCSoft and now Blizzard catches botters today, they look for that tale tale movement pattern, and then they PM the player to see if they respond, no response = suspention for reviewal, after reviewal from a supirior it gets a perma ban. Now in the e-mail the father says his son can't really play the game at all, but what little he can do makes him happy so he lets his son try. Combining that with the fact the child is playing the game with a trackball/cheek wand mechanism on the wheelchair it becomes VERY posible that the sons attempt at play looks rather like the move, pause, attack, pause, move, pause of the botters. And when the GM went to PM the child to see if anyone was active at the computer, the child was unable to respond (or had no clue he was supposed to respond for that matter). What I think happened is Bliz never read the e-mails. Or atleast anyone higher up. Blizzard is VERY nazi in how it deals with customer service. They have a formula and a pattern to how you are to be treated and there is nothing you can do to change that. This e-mails wouldn't have been sent to the supirior at all I don't think, rather the higher up would just get the account name and a message saying "review for posible botting", and since its very likely the child's movements LOOK like a botter the higher ups come to the same conclusion the GMs did. Without ever hearing WHY. Its happened to me personaly with WoW. The in game petition system is a joke. They don't read what you type at all, rather they just file it under what type of petition you chose and then fire off an automated response that has nothing at all to do with what you had to say. 6, 7, even 8 petitions in a row it is like this. Really sad. Oh and there is no need to read past page 2 really. Nothing important happens at all other than one of the Forum Mods comes in on page 15 or something and says "Looking into it". You can make sense of the situation well enough just by reading the e-mails and knowing a thing or two about how they catch botters (you know we really learned alot from L2). |
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Post by Lady Shylah on Jun 16, 2005 11:56:28 GMT -7
Wow. That's messed up then. With a company that large and with as much attention that it got? You'd think that Blizzard would have taken a personal interest in what was going on.
Are the parents going to press charges?
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Post by brinstar on Jun 16, 2005 19:29:00 GMT -7
Wow. That's messed up then. With a company that large and with as much attention that it got? You'd think that Blizzard would have taken a personal interest in what was going on. Are the parents going to press charges? No way of telling. The account of the family it happened too can no longer post on the forum, so updates are hard to get. Plus if they went to a lawyer the first thing the lawyer would tell them is to stay off that forum in order to protect the case. So its gona be old news soon I think. Whats sad is this is the kind of stuff I've come to expect from Bliz. NCSoft was bad with L2 in how they didn't protect us from all the corruption in thier game, but Bliz is worse in that THEY are the corruption in many ways. I duno. Its sad. In other news, I LOVE your Avatar. |
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Post by Lady Shylah on Jun 17, 2005 7:22:08 GMT -7
That is sad. The only run ins that I've had with Blizzard has been with their strategy games.. Diablo, Diablo II, Starcraft, Warcraft III... They have always been cool to me. I guess it's different with WoW. You know, Brin? I was just thinking of L2 last night. I really did like that game. If only they could do something about how PvP was dealt with.. mabye make it similar to how WoW has it set up. If that were fixed, that would be fine game. I miss the music, the VERY pretty characters, armor, and landscapes. Haha I miss those annoying yipping Kelters!  Anyway, I hope those people get it all straightened out. I'm sure if they go to court and 'win' then it'll be in the news in one way or another. And thanks on the avatar  I love those kitty eyes! |
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Saine
Tairise Ally
Posts: 1,900
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Post by Saine on Jun 17, 2005 8:27:53 GMT -7
Honestly, I hate to sound like the insensitive, cold, uncaring hag, but I bet there's a lot more to this story than what that article says. For a living I work in a call center. I have worked on a couple of contracts, all have dealt with a major ISP in the US. (no, it's NOT AOL LOL) anyway, I have taken literally hundreds of supervisor calls in the 3.5 years I have worked there. On the majority of these calls, it's someone telling you they should get money back, or they are going to sue you. 3/4 of them have some incurable disease, their father/mother/wife/husband/child just died, they are on SSI (I guess that's like welfare or something down there?? not sure) they are about to be evicted, they can't afford to eat, you get the idea...my point is this, these people do something wrong, like not pay their bill, harass other users, or they get their accounts cancelled because they are sending spam or publishing porn on their websites. Then they call us and threaten to sue us and tell us their horrible life story of which 99% of what they are telling us is more than likely not true. These are people who LIE to try and get their way because they did something wrong. I'm not saying that's what happened in this case, maybe Blizzard did screw up, or maybe the customer did do something wrong and now they are trying to blame Blizzard for it. It's hard to say and really the only people who know are the people involved and the person at Blizzard who banned the account. Before doing the job I do now, I would have been like "How could they do this to this poor family!!!!!" but now, after working in the environment and seeing how people try to manipulate big companies, it makes you a little jaded and more weary of these kinds of situations. Just thought I'd stir up some controversy before I head of to work |
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Post by Lady Shylah on Jun 17, 2005 8:43:40 GMT -7
 You cold hearted rat! ;D No, Saine, you totally have a point there. People will come up with the most crazy stories even when they're not true. I'll bet that there is a small % that are telling the truth, but the majority are just stories. Like I asked in my first post, how is Blizzard able to tell that these people are telling the truth? And how are we, as observers, to know that Blizzard is being unfair? Again, I didn't read the whole story and it could very well be true, but I think if it is true then that family would take it up in another manner. Like calling Blizzard, getting a lawyer if needs be, sending Blizzard certified medical statements regarding the kids health. All that jazz. If it's just some punks making up stories, they wouldn't put that much effort into it. On the chance that the story is true though.. it's really sad  |
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Candu
Tairise Member 
Life: What happens while you are making other plans
Posts: 670
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Post by Candu on Jun 17, 2005 8:44:45 GMT -7
In support of the Blizzard has to be concerned about setting a legal precedence, too. Even if the story is completely true, if Blizzard did not band or un-banned the account based on an email, then every banned botter could use the exact same excuse (precedence) and Blizzard would be legally obligated to treat them the same way they treated this one account. Face it folks, the RL world is not a happy, friendly place where it pays to play nice. Sad but true  Candu Altings |
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Kaeros
Tairise Ally
Posts: 125
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Post by Kaeros on Jun 17, 2005 10:17:03 GMT -7
I'm too distant from this situation to really comment, other than to say that Blizzard does tend to be pretty mercenary, and that there really is no way to verify this story. Sad if it is true, still kinda sad if it ain't. If it isn't, you gotta give those botters props for a pretty creative story.  Speaking of botters, here's the new tactic for countering Butcherblock bot crews: cast Spirit of the Wolf on their leader. He will outrun the rest and likely die, the autofollowing crowd will end up stuck without anyone to follow, and you'll have thrown one small wrench into the gears of the evil botters. Next time you see Tankking, give him the gift of SoW. |
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Post by Lady Shylah on Jun 17, 2005 11:25:01 GMT -7
Speaking of botters, here's the new tactic for countering Butcherblock bot crews: cast Spirit of the Wolf on their leader. He will outrun the rest and likely die, the autofollowing crowd will end up stuck without anyone to follow, and you'll have thrown one small wrench into the gears of the evil botters. Next time you see Tankking, give him the gift of SoW. oooo very nice! I wish i had Spirit of the Wolf to get those botters  I wish I had SoW for me too.. I am the slow |
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Saine
Tairise Ally
Posts: 1,900
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Post by Saine on Jun 17, 2005 21:16:30 GMT -7
Speaking of botters, here's the new tactic for countering Butcherblock bot crews: cast Spirit of the Wolf on their leader. He will outrun the rest and likely die, the autofollowing crowd will end up stuck without anyone to follow, and you'll have thrown one small wrench into the gears of the evil botters. Next time you see Tankking, give him the gift of SoW. LMAO what a great idea!!!! I love the creative ideas people come up with to grief the bots. I have heard you can bombard them with trade invites too and that screws up their bot program. I have never tried it, but was tempted to yesterday when they were botting the mobs I needed to finish a quest! |
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Post by brinstar on Jun 18, 2005 22:15:11 GMT -7
UPDATE: Apparently the account has been reinstated. The OP came in and said that they were in contact with Bliz over the phone and reached an understanding and they reactivated the kids account. Bliz was quick to respond and say "yea we reactivated it, but we really shouldn't have and we were right to deactivate it all along..." basicly the post was pretty stubborn sounding like they were refusing to accept defeat. I'm glad this one was cleared. Obviously the kids account will be monitored pretty heavily and if any real botting harm is done he's toast. But I mean come on, its obvious he's not one of the Pin-Yin speaking Adena.Inc guys that are the real true enemy if he was a bad guy at all. I hate the botters and cheaters more than anyone, life was HELL in L2 because of them, but you can't just "Nuke em from Orbit and let God sort 'em out". And Shy, I miss L2 ALOT. I miss its artistry. I miss an Orc Warrior being a HUGE AND IMPRESSIVE massive beast warrior. I miss the feeling you'd get when you walked into Cruma Tower for the first time. I miss alot of that game. But I hated alot of it too. I went back for a month about 3 months ago and the game was a ghost town. I didn't see any of the farmerbotters that used to run things and the towns would only have 3-4 people selling items in them. But your right, the PvP system is just too much. Takes too long to level, dieing causes too much harm, and openly chaotic PvP on top of all that is just way to much for me now Im spoiled. But look at the bright side, no one can ever call us Carebares |
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Post by Lady Shylah on Jun 19, 2005 7:45:05 GMT -7
And Shy, I miss L2 ALOT. I miss its artistry. I miss an Orc Warrior being a HUGE AND IMPRESSIVE massive beast warrior. I miss the feeling you'd get when you walked into Cruma Tower for the first time. I miss alot of that game. But I hated alot of it too. I went back for a month about 3 months ago and the game was a ghost town. I didn't see any of the farmerbotters that used to run things and the towns would only have 3-4 people selling items in them. But your right, the PvP system is just too much. Takes too long to level, dieing causes too much harm, and openly chaotic PvP on top of all that is just way to much for me now Im spoiled. But look at the bright side, no one can ever call us Carebares Hehe yeah.. that game was sooo beautiful. And I love the race specific emotes. In EQ2, everyone does the same thing even if they are a different race. It would be cool if the froggies had a 'frog' dance and the iskar had some sort of 'snakeish' type dance. You know? But yeah, I miss the artistry of the game as well as different each race was. Rioku has a huge orc warrior. That was just cool. He was huge! Now he's a little wood elf... go figure.. lol Did you see any of the old crew? Did you see Bragi or Zalor or any of the allies? |
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Post by brinstar on Jun 19, 2005 21:38:17 GMT -7
And Shy, I miss L2 ALOT. I miss its artistry. I miss an Orc Warrior being a HUGE AND IMPRESSIVE massive beast warrior. I miss the feeling you'd get when you walked into Cruma Tower for the first time. I miss alot of that game. But I hated alot of it too. I went back for a month about 3 months ago and the game was a ghost town. I didn't see any of the farmerbotters that used to run things and the towns would only have 3-4 people selling items in them. But your right, the PvP system is just too much. Takes too long to level, dieing causes too much harm, and openly chaotic PvP on top of all that is just way to much for me now Im spoiled. But look at the bright side, no one can ever call us Carebares Hehe yeah.. that game was sooo beautiful. And I love the race specific emotes. In EQ2, everyone does the same thing even if they are a different race. It would be cool if the froggies had a 'frog' dance and the iskar had some sort of 'snakeish' type dance. You know? But yeah, I miss the artistry of the game as well as different each race was. Rioku has a huge orc warrior. That was just cool. He was huge! Now he's a little wood elf... go figure.. lol Did you see any of the old crew? Did you see Bragi or Zalor or any of the allies? None sadly. I want to say I did see Zalor at some point in some game sometime after we all left L2, but I cant remember what or where. Guildwars has some of the same character detail L2 had (another game published by NCSoft, seeing a trend) also the /dance command is class specific (everyone is Human), the Necromancer actualy does the Thriller dance, the Monk classes do matial arts balance training/poses, the Mezmers (gaelic style enchanter type class) do irish step dancing, the male warriors headbang, elementalist females do the Hula (I LOVE it)... its pretty cool. GW has alot of the artistry and detail of L2 too but the actual game mechanics plays more like a Single Player game than a MMORPG. |
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I love those kitty eyes!
You cold hearted rat!
